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- : I : -!-' ' - -' -V -V-T"-. ! , -:' "' ' v - ; v. . 1 . -i ' ; ' : -'r' Our ire the Pai of fair cftghrfdl Peace, . ;- . i. . E ''.' ' ' .' 1i .'. - " lnwarpa y J 'rty Rage ti live like Brother" .1- 'j ' ' r f" ' r - '--'-R 'a " ' " ' ' - - - .: - r. - .-; S i ' 1 ." vl ., . . . ; j- :.V- - - - - - -1 --r : ---- - - ;- -- -- l ' ' : - - - Ml ; zrr" , " - , : .i'-A i'' . -v ' X u e s day, b-E b r u a'ry i8 , 1 8oo. .-. i Tf- ' 4 ' ' , ' . - ; :' Nov i8. Vol I. ' j ' - : - j-- - ; I . " ' ' " " - - ; i iT -'r ' . ' 1 1 . 1 .i .... j i mm i - . - J. , , - - ' , K DEBATE J O N Mri Nicholas's f ropy For rsuealife crtim" ' Pts of the Aft ' rdiiing a aiidit'iwiul Army. . '.ok m . J At rsVfrvfl that a ter tbei Commtttce had been ;fo cla autntly entertained by the ifpUy of fancy exhibited by the gentleman laft up, he d:d not know whether he fiiouhl have it' in his power to command their attention, as he could offer nothing but t dry dii cuihbii of the queftion ltielf. I he motion did not conte-Tnpiate'-that the whole army (hould bc'tjiibanded a Dofition on which theajrgutnetits of gentlemen oppofed to it had baen founded. It did not even go to re duce the army, eftablifhmerit to th fame htuation in which it was in i7S8. ' In April that year, our vhciie number of troops o'p the cf tabifDimcnt : was 3200 men. Our permanent eftablilhment now, in dependent bfj the troops which are the objcdl of the motion on the ta bic, amount ; to 5400. There is therefore an incrcafe of 200 men lince April, 1798 which was not contemplated to be effe&ed by this motion, made by This lncreaie naq uccu addiri? an additional re- pimint of artillery, and increahng the number of men in ach company on the former - eftablifhment. In addition to thefe, there are 1069 marines, who are likewilcj upon he permanent cftabliftxment,; and who may . oecafionally icrve in " garrifon in the neareft place, in cafe of war, or daneer or mvlhon trom any forej?n country. Such increafc of the companies on the permanent ef tablifhment was to take place by virtue of the law to organize the army as would make an addition of 2500 men. I hia was independent of what was called the eventual ar my. l:he refolution afrecls only what n cv.ita tne aaaitionai army, which was to amount to about 9300 men. 1 hele are propolea to Jjc difoanded, which, if done, would Mill leave a force of 5400 men. 'be (ides 1069 marines,- and power in the Preudent- to raife 2500 more in cafe of invafion or war. This is a correct ftatement of the .fcxifting force. What it called the permanent eftablifhment of 2400 men, I con ccive to be fufHcient to garrifon the forts arid harbours, and for the Dro tection of th frontiers igainft the Indians. Indeed that appears alfo to be the opinion or Vjovertiment ; for fuch of the 9300 at are enlrfted, ere encamped m cantonments.1 Almoft all the fpeech of th gen . tlemen from Delaware, is a ftrong crgument in favour or tile motion : 1 1 ... - ' r J t wnicn neaiicmpieu.io oppoiei nc lavs that, no dependance can be placed on the jamicable difpofition of the French, nd( that it was not probable 'a peace would.be the event uf the negociation. &n this fuppo- iition he argues the neceiiitr ot a continuation of; ihi force. It is from this uncertainty of things that I wiin the army to be dilban.ued. If 1 was convinced that the event f the negotiation would be a treaty jn a tnort period , 1 ihould Yio: think this motiorti ne'eeffary, for. in cafe of an acljuflment of differences with France, the army was alraadv according to law, to be dilbanded. It is becaufe of thunceriainty that I conceive the motion t to be 1m povtant. .' 4 ; -I believe that if tthere (hould be no treaty; with. France,! this army woum do uintii--nay, j, win go further,' and fay it wbuld be perni cious. When I fay it would be ufe- lefs, I conceive theburthen of proof does not reft on me, but that it is incumbent on thofe gentlemen who think the army heceffary to prove i its, utility, The arguments of tnte gentleman from Virginia vefterday ( Mr. Marfhall) .'did, not? appear to place any great dependence upon this army, let what! would be the event of the negociation. 1 Yet he has repeated the idea formerly' io much infifled upon, the induce ments which this country offered to tne French for invafion.. In favour ot this doctrine he gives, however,. but one argument, drawn from the events of the former wars between Trance arid Great-Bntain He ve ry judly obferves, that in all thole ars where America was united to G reat. Britain,he triumphed over COMINUAATIONOFTIIE France ; but thateyent was changed during . the p laftHwjfr, when the weight of Amerivyas thrown into the fcale -pfj;;J?fadce I'And from thence he ilkws; the ednclufioh, that Amerit oilers great;,, induce ments to inV afionThe fad brought to yiew by ,tlie gentleman, pro ci to me the very reverfc of what he intended' uluggcfti If the weight of America throw n in the fcale of Grcai-Sritain, decided every con teft in favour of that country, can it be the iniereft of France by an invafion, to jthrow ds altogether in the arms pf Great-Britain ? Is it not, on tlie) contrary, her intereft to cultivate :,our-friendfhipt and 10 promote at lea ft; ouHnutrality ? But the hiflory of the lift war places the argument in a fa1rore forcible point of view. The fofc of Ame rica was not only withdrawn from an aftive operationvagi nCreat Britain. 1 It was that cprtej'which rendered the ight of America of nnmciile importance. But where and in whaemannerwas thlt qoriteft carried on? Great-Britain invaded America ; and it wasi thatnvauon, it was their fnedding their blood and exhaufting their treafure in the hopeieis attempt, which diidedtheir rorcp.weakened thcireliortsand gave every' where the means of vjftory to their enemies. Yet it is laid, that thc.reeolle&ion of the even ti of that war are an- inducement to invade this .country, and"-thence is drawn an argument in favour of the army. To my mind nothing can appear more contradictory than that con clufion; It amounts to this Eng land was "not only unable to con. qtrer America : but the attempt di vided and enfeebled her lo much, as to change her relative fuuation with herancient European enemy ; there fore it is the intereft of France to invade America. It is evident that tne recollection aina experience or laft' war adds greatly to our con fidence in our power of repelling an invafion, and 5. to our fecurity againft the renewal of -the attempt from any nation. France has nei ther nayal nor money refources to fpare for it, nor fcarcely to aecom plifh what fhe wilhes in Europe. Not withftanding her boafted power, fhe'is not in any degree equal in thofe two refources to what Britain is now, after a long and exjaenfive war, much lefs is fhe eaual toiwhat that nation was in ltltr. when1 ftie invaded this country. I need not add, in confirmation of thefe ideas, that oupo ulation is nearly double at this time to that .of nnd. and that with our population our refources are doubled at lead. This is a faft which cannot be difputed. j 1 We have been told by the gentle man from Delaware, that, if France did not make a treaty with us,, it ,was becaufe Ihe meant to invade us. 1 cannot conceive how he could draw this conclufion. ). He has re capitulated .all the conduct of France towards us, and related the indignities with which our former milhons 'were treated. She was not,t at either of thofe times, dif pbfedtd treat with thiscountrybut did invafion fucceed the failure of the negociations? From pa ft ex perience, and from a knowledge of her nidation, and the fmall induce ments to that conduft, the dangcV of invafion is not tobe apprehended, even. em a failure of our prefeht ne gociations. If France ,rwilhes to continue the difpute, I believe it will be becaufe fhe has lanother ob jecl in view, and that objecVis folely to plunder four commerce. This may be an inducement, but the other cannot, on afccouiit of her want of power to execute it; or if fhe had power, the want of inducement. The argument, however, on which the gentlemln from Virginia prin cipallyreftshisoppofition,is ground ed on a fupppfition that the prefent motion will have an' unfavourable effect,, upon the negociation, in as much as it i$ in his opinion partial derelictionof the fyftem ofrefiftaifce adopted by this, country, and to which he afcribes the prefent tem per of v France. I do not believe fuch an rtfeft can be produced.By I it ; if I did, or had thieleaft appfetien-1 horf U, 1 fhould, be among the lift to advocate itr v'lop; 1 certainly wife for tiotnbg gociationl ll d not believe it firfti vccauic iwr tiicisaions ,u nave mit now given, connder this army as ufelefs, even in cafe of a continua tion of hoftiiities with that rtatioP, and .becaufe: tt do fincerely believe that France entertains a fimilar idea on that fubjejS; with burfelves, and that our having three or fcur thou fandpmen effective, or from nine to ten thoufandnominal men, more or lefs, will riot produce, the lea ft change in tljie opinion of our abi lity to refift fan invafion, or in her expeftation, lof fuccefs fhould fhe continue to behoftilei In thenext place I do not conceive this motion to be a derelijclion of ; the fyftem of refiftancc agiunft France, . becaufe the; additional army never nude a part nf that fyftem' which was adopted thej laft Congrefs. Tiat fyftem; befidfs putting in a fituation of defence our ports and harbours, which are cofmpletely garrifoned by the permanejnt army, independent of thefe tr4P$ con ft fled in re pelling forci by force it fea, in refifting thaggrefiions of France onHthe!elemeit where they had been committed, and in filf pending our treaties and commercial intercourfe. The only addition to thofe meafures yas merely Otic of caution, by giv ing the Prefijdent power to call out a provifiopaljarmy, in cafe of " war, invaiun, or danger ot invaiion. All the -measures were propofed by the committe of defence, and were paueo , uetween April ana June or thereabout. 1 After thefe acts had paiTcd, a motion was brought into the Koufe,arjd carried to create thefe twelve reeilnents. This was en- tirelyani-inidenendent and uncon nected motion from the meafures re ported by the committee at an ear lier period.! Further : although this law did rals in lulv. it was not attemnted to b carried into ex ecution till the next winter, which was about hx months after the law lifted! The .fir ft 'aobointments of ofhceis were made after the meeting of Congrels in that winter, and of courie ihe cnliftments did not take place for a; cnnfitlerable time. I neretore arruc. that this was not a . r part of ihejfneceffary fyftem of de- ience,' or rather refiftance, beforede termincd on and executed. I well remember what were the argumehts adduced in favour of the mcafure at that time which led l to its adoption, which was carried bv a very larce majority of the Houfe. W were; told of the proximiStyof St. Domingo tothe Southern parts of America ; we were, i told 0f the weaknefs of that part ofvthcl country, arifing from their black population, and the dan ger to 'whch they were expofed from an invafion of blacks from Hifpaniola ;I we were told that it was not doing juftice to fo impor tant a part of the country, to re fufe, to giv s it the fame fecurity which other parts enjoyed. Not that much danger of invafion was apprehended, but that that part of the country fhould be placed beyond the power of complaint, I know many members received impreftions fo far arto Induce them to vote for it, of which number myfelf Was one. Yes, Sir, 1 then voted for the lavr untlcr confideration; but I confider tHe fituation of things is now materially changed. ,: So far from this.biing the fituation at pre fent, ja treaty has been formed with the goycrnmnt of St. Domingo, and therefore invafion cannot be ap preherided rom that quarter. Ano- ' - r .1. 1 "i ther reafon in tavour 01 init law at the period kf its propofition, was, that fcveial members of this Houfe whether or not ' the law had doubts for raifing i a provifiona! army -.was ltnctiy co,nititutionai oecauie pow er was gi veh to, the Prefident to raife it,f4n cafe he fhould, in htsdifcre tien,! think pro per; ' .1 They there fore Voted) for this rather than 't fee that -carried intd execution which they "doubted the constitu tionality of. At prpfent, neither Or thefe reasons can ce operative ; this law giving, this difcretionar power to the Prelident - expires at the end of the prefent fellion of Congrefs.- arid-the danger from bt. Ddmi n go is fet afide by a t rea t y. I therefbie ihink- thatj inafmuch this does tlot make any part of' th ':ftxM'' off at⁣i;YBfifp. ffaintti: French aggremon! the x$ Jjcalitig bfjt cirtnot affect our nego ciation orimnf efs that nation, with la ware goes farther lie iaysjVthatf vve are difpbfed tol think Jfo friitidly of t rariceas to diibancsour troops we fhall next propofe to difbahd our navy, renew bur ijotercoiirfef and abolifh all ihofe meiafures to which we were driven. by her hoftile con duct. I lee no connection between the One meafureandjthe other and although 1 was oppoicd to an inc meifures, nearly, to which he al ludes, yet I would not, in our pre fenti fituation. vote for the repeal of either of thofe laws' T was adverfe. to the general fyftem of Jioftility adopted by this country. , But, one adopted, though I , think , a naval eitablifhrnenti.too expenhve a fyftem tor this country, it is ray duty to fupport ituhtil negociation; ihali have reftored us toour former fituation, or fome cogent circum- ftances fhall compel a change. 1 here is but one of lhfejaws about which I have any doubt, that is relpecting our commercial mter- courte with France. Perhaps it migh be better policy to repeal that law. The gentleman from Virginia told os there; was fbrae middle way, fome modification of the army, which might be adopted, and would fave a great part of the expehce. The object of the gentleman would be to prevent a certain number be ing enlifted, perhaps all thole who are ftill wanting. I a fk then, if to reduce our military eftablifhment is a dereliction of our fyftem of refif tance, and may have a fatal effect on the negociation, will not tk.s mo dification produce! precifely the fame effect, fince it iwill ftill be re ceding from meafures eftablifhed eighteen months ago. It will be '.i iT r . i r neither more nor leis man laying that the utuation ot aitairs is alter ed, and that it is riot necefTary to keep up all thefe forces. Eighteen months ago we thought i50o61rteh ncceffary, but now we think proper to modity agreeable to our utuation. All the difference between the gen tleman's propofition and ours is, he thinks the forces may be reduced to ,8ooo ; we think they may be reduced to 5CC0. But I believe a modifica tion in either way would noftiave the lcaft effect. I think; however, that the conccfUon of that gentle man in favour of a! modification is exciufive in. fupport of my pofition, that this army could not effect the negociation, and therefore that it was ufelefs, but I will go farther and fay it is pernicious. I think fo, becaufe taking thefe men from their occupations and employments, and putting j them into a fervice where their labours are perfectly unproductive, and where they con tract habits of idlcnefs, is of itfelf an evil. . - But further the army cxhaufts our reiources, by puttine us to a greater expence than' can be jufti hed, expept from urgent neceflity. If there 15 any danger to be appre h ended from France, it is by fea, and therefore gentlemen who goon that plan, ought, in conformity to their own-fyftem, to apply our re- fourcM to the object which will protect our commerce. I fhall not enter into a detail of our actual fi nancial fituation, becaufe the ftate- ment made yefterday by the gentle man from Virgiriia was fufiiciently accurate. The ability and willing riefs' of the people to pay taxes, as sn abftratt principle, cannot be doubted, but however willing they may be to pay taxes,! this year s dc ficiency muft be fupplicd by a loan', Our income is not f ufficienu The Secretary of the Treafury has told usvihat we murt have recoune to a loan. No tax which we can now lav will remove the deficiency, be . -1 -19 into the Treafury till 18O1. Our fitu ation then is, that upon a revenue of nine millions we borrow five mil lions at the rate of eight per cent. I think thit fimplc ftatement to be a fufficient reafon why we fhould re- trench an expenditure of two mil j lions arid an half, the appropriation neceffary for that additional army, Syhich it is the, objectf this motion I will tioffay thatfit is impdffible tn increaie our revenue. 1 Known isboffibie to raife more even by di rect taxesbut I kriow at the fame time that; it cannot be.done vi;hout The Gentleman from Dela inconvenience to opr citizens, and the more fo as. our produce has ex-'-- perjenced 1 confiderable depreftion. We are tela, by tfie gentleman front. Delaware L ..that the people ' of this Country would jpa ;aper cxit. for money; ratber tfan fubmit "to & foreign invafion. , I adroit that if the danger Was imminent and real i they would fubmit to pay any thing. Yet this confidence expreffed ,by that gentleman in f he willingnefs of the people to pay, does 7 riot very well comport with another part of his argument.' wherein he infinuated a want of Confidence in thofe very people wheri the enemy comes. ; Much weight appears to be placed on the argument of the neceflity of thefe troops in Cafe of the failure of the negociation, and that we muft wait till that failure actually takes place,' for We do not know what will be the fituation of affairs at that time, lhis argument would hold. good while the war in Europe con- tinues under the uncertainty or what may Happen. .The prefet ancf ekifting ftate Of things, and proba bility of events are the only ground of legiflationi The fame reafoninsr might be urged by gentlemen, even. if the ' negociation mould fudceed, " for from,thfe apprehenficins ' wo fhould not then be out of danger; nay, there will be ftrongcr ground in favour of the continuance of the troops, on account of the danger, of a rupture with Great-Britain-. It is well known that at this time our difputes with that nation arc not tnhing. Ihe depredations from Britain arc now at leaff equal to thofe of France, and are a fufficient ground of offence. In addition to this, two of the articles of our trea ty with that nation are in a ftate of fufpenfion. A rupture, iherefore, with that country will be more to be apprehended than invafion fronv France ever was, now . is, or thea will be. 1 am riof afraid, however, of invafion from any power. I know it is within the poflibili'v of events, but 1 do think it probable ' 1 have only ufed thefe arguments to fhew that thia is as proper a time to difband thefe troops as any that can, exift, and indeed more- proper, whether the event of the negocia tion ke a treaty or not. 1 will only add a few ideas in an fwer to the gentleman laft up as to the impreffiori; the meafiire would make on the foldiers themfelves This as a general argumen t is not a good one, becaufe foldiers and ofH-r cers enlift or accept their cbm miflions during the cxiftmg diftur bance, " unlefs fooncr difcharged." Therefore we have referveol a right to difcharge them at any time ; but as Our permanent eftablifhment is not full, if the foldiers are now dif charged, they may avbid all tho hardfhips fo humanely contemplated by the gentleman laft up, by euiift, ing in that army. With refpctt.to the officers if they have a project of being difcharged from thefrrvice jin a fhort time, the fooncr. hey re turn to tneirnomes and occupation the better, for ihe habits acquired in encampments, are, in my opinion, in nowife calculated to promote their tuture uletufncli to iociety- or to themfelves. " Mr. Hartley fpbke in favour of a middle courfe. Geneal La a faid, if he was to confult his own feelings, or was he to regard momentary popularity, ho (hould certainly remain fiflent, or fupport the refolution on the 'tkble.. The ground, he faid, On i wKich the; queftion refted, was naowffibd ought never to be forgotten.' i It was fimply this, fhall we for thefake of a fmall f aving, break in on our fyftem of defente, uninformed as we are of the pending negociation. for peace, or continue to adhere to our de fen five fyftem, until . wo know, with certainty what .we may. expect on the fubjectof peace? Thet JElon. Member from Delaware, had with much ability irid eloquence preffed fome of the obfervaiion made by his colleague yefterday. He would therefore confine kimfelf to thofe remarks of thergentlcmaa laft up in favour of the icfoltition chiefly, and hoped ; to b able to ftiew their irrelevancy. ? 1 -H The gentleman affcrtsVfthat the addition of the twelve reinieor cannot be viewed as 4n any der operative on the pending ;xsego 1 . 1 1 I 1 t tt an opiniva oi our xmeecmcy. I. )r ......
The Weekly Raleigh Register (Raleigh, N.C.)
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Feb. 18, 1800, edition 1
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